Joining me today for Episode #383 of the podcast is Patrick Anderson, the CEO of the Rural Alaska Community Action Program, Inc. (or “RurAL CAP”). Patrick was previously a guest way back in Episodes #53 and #71.
Patrick returns to the podcast to reflect on how ideas from W. Edwards Deming and Lean thinking have shaped his leadership journey across nonprofit, healthcare-adjacent, and public-sector environments.
Patrick shares how his early exposure to Deming's philosophy–well before Lean became common language–helped him see the limits of traditional command-and-control leadership. As CEO, he has worked deliberately to shift culture toward respect for people, humility, and learning, especially in organizations staffed by what he calls “heart people,” not business-school managers. That shift required modeling new behaviors, breaking down silos, and replacing directives with conversations rooted in curiosity and humble inquiry.
The discussion explores how Patrick introduced Lean thinking at RurAL CAP through practical, human-centered experiments rather than top-down mandates. He describes early Kaizen efforts in areas like janitorial supply management and document control, as well as a creative approach to Lean education that adapts Training Within Industry (TWI) methods to teach Lean concepts themselves. By assuming no prior Lean knowledge, Patrick and his team built confidence, shared language, and internal capability–slowly expanding from early adopters to broader engagement.
Patrick also explains how RurAL CAP's evolving performance management system connects strategy, daily work, and improvement. Drawing on A3 thinking, visual management, Kanban, and Deming's ideas about variation, the organization is working to replace inspection and firefighting with built-in quality and learning. Throughout the conversation, Patrick emphasizes that psychological safety isn't a program–it's the result of consistent leadership behavior, where people feel safe admitting problems, asking for help, and experimenting without fear.
This episode offers a thoughtful look at how Lean and Deming's ideas translate beyond manufacturing, showing what it really takes to move from command-and-control toward a culture of learning, respect, and continuous improvement in mission-driven organizations.
Learning From Mistakes
Patrick makes the case that learning from mistakes is fundamentally a leadership issue, not an individual flaw. He emphasizes that most people hesitate to admit mistakes because recognition creates an obligation to act, and many organizations quietly punish that honesty.
For Patrick, the real failure isn't making a mistake–it's leaving it uncorrected. He argues that explanations without fixes are just excuses, and that real learning only happens when leaders create an environment where problems can be acknowledged openly and addressed directly.
By shifting away from command-and-control behaviors toward respect, curiosity, and support, leaders make it safer for people to surface mistakes early–when they can still be fixed–turning errors into opportunities for improvement rather than sources of fear or blame.
For a link to this episode, refer people to www.leanblog.org/383.
Questions, Links, and More
- An article about Patrick and his life in the Princeton alumni magazine
- The book Team of Teams, mentioned by Patrick
- Please share your background – personally and professionally – and how your career evolved and progressed?
- How did you first get introduced to Lean? Or was it Dr. Deming first?
- In your current organization, RurAL CAP, what are your goals and aims with Lean methods?
- How are you working to change the culture from Command & Control to… how are you framing that transition and end state?
- What does “respect for people” mean to you and the organization? How does that manifest itself in terms of leader behaviors?
- How have Kaizen and Training Within Industry (TWI) been helpful?
- How does the “Performance Management System” tie things together?
Thanks for listening!
Here is the full, lightly edited transcript of the conversation between Mark Graban and Patrick Anderson. It has been cleaned for readability (removing stutters and filler words) and corrected to reflect RurAL CAP and other proper noun spellings (e.g., Nypro, Chugachmiut, Hoshin Kanri).
Introduction and Patrick's Background
Mark Graban: Hi. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Mark Graban. Joining me today is Patrick Anderson. He is CEO at an organization called RurAL CAP–that's the Rural Alaska Community Action Program, Inc..
I've known Patrick for a long time. He was a guest back in episodes 53 and 71, going back to 2008 and 2009. I'm glad that he's back. We're going to talk about the organization he's been working with for the past couple of years, how he first got introduced to Lean, his focus on the Dr. Deming philosophy, and his work changing the culture away from command and control to one focused on respect for people.
Patrick Anderson: I'm doing just fine Mark. Since I was on the podcast last, you have adopted video, so it's real nice to see your face as I talk to you.
Mark Graban: It's good to see you and get a little glimpse into the beauty of Alaska. If you could introduce yourself to the audience–you've got a really interesting background–and maybe weave that into how you got introduced to Lean.
Patrick Anderson: Absolutely. I'm actually an attorney, licensed to practice in the state of Alaska since 1978. I never really liked law practice all that much. I was decent at it and made a living, but as one gets older and begins to see there are a lot of unmet needs in the world, I made a decision to change careers.
I ended up being hired by one of our Alaska Native regional nonprofit organizations, Chugachmiut, which is where I was when you interviewed me the first two times. I spent about nine years there, and that was where I got introduced to Lean.
We started doing improvement events, but it was not structured or formal. I got my introduction to Lean because of my involvement with an Alaska Native regional corporation, a for-profit corporation. It was through my service on the board of one of our subsidiary plastics companies that I met Brian Jones.
Brian was wonderful. He sat down with our board for a 30-minute lunch in Clinton, Massachusetts, and explained their adoption of Lean manufacturing at Nypro. My question to Brian was, “Are you planning to extend it to administrative processes?” When he said “yes,” I was off and running.
I came back to Anchorage and talked to my executive team. I went off to the Shingo Conference in Lexington, Kentucky in 2004. Brian was a guest speaker there, but I ran into a couple of Lean practitioners and we engaged one of them, Dr. Tom Jackson. We had him up for Hoshin Kanri, and that started my serious learning. I'm a bookworm anyway, so I read considerably. That was 16 years ago, and it's been an incredible journey.
The Influence of Dr. Deming
Mark Graban: One thing you and I share in common is exposure to the ideas of Dr. W. Edwards Deming before really getting deep into Lean. I was wondering if you could share some of your perspectives on that.
Patrick Anderson: I'm just mesmerized by Dr. Deming. As I have 16 years of experience now, I understand his frustration at the message not being accepted in the United States.
My introduction came through my tribal roots in Southeast Alaska. A local school had transitioned into state ownership and adopted a unique method of education based on Deming principles. Instead of getting grades, they ended up with portfolios and a less structured environment driven by performance measurement. The concept of control charts, averages, and variation played in well.
When I left Juneau and practiced law for a while, the Chugach School District–which had been the recipient of a Baldrige Quality Award–had been a beneficiary of that experience. I studied a lot of Dr. Deming and saw the wisdom of what he proposed in Out of the Crisis. The problem, I guess, was people didn't think we were in a crisis.
Mark Graban: How does Dr. Deming resonate with you now, looking back at having been a CEO?.
Patrick Anderson: Even more deeply than before. I remember reading John Shook's Learning to See. Today, after 16 years of experience working in healthcare administrative processes and finance, you learn to visualize how processes run.
When I look at the workplace today, Lean seems so simple, but I was so immersed in the blockers most people had towards accepting new thoughts. Now I work with boards that are not highly educated or experienced business people–I describe them as “heart people.”.
When I found Lean, I discovered that through the elimination of waste, you can free up time with an employee to do a little bit more in terms of developing new services. But then I found there was a lack of innovative thinking. Dr. Deming talked about “create pride in work.” We have employees who are used to being told what to do. When you create time so they can think about what they're doing and find that joy in work again, it's a different work environment.
About RurAL CAP
Mark Graban: Can you tell the listeners a little bit about the organization and the range of services offered?.
Patrick Anderson: We are a Community Action Agency funded through the Community Service Block Grant Program. We're the only Community Action Agency in all of Alaska. We are charged with listening to the voice of those who live in poverty and trying to develop strategies that help them escape poverty.
We run a Head Start program with 24 sites around the state. We do Weatherization–funded heavily during ARRA in 2008–because energy costs in Alaska are very high. We also run a supportive housing program based on the “Housing First” concept from Seattle, meaning homeless people who continue to use substances are not stopped from being housed.
We have about 270 housing units, serving people who have typically been homeless, with heavy alcohol use, mental issues, or brain injuries. We surround them with clinical and case management services. We also do a lot of community development, particularly with Alaska Native tribal communities.
Initial Kaizen and Lean Implementation
Mark Graban: How do you decide where to focus Kaizen activity with that range of services?.
Patrick Anderson: I worked on intuition when I arrived. The board had relieved two CEOs in the prior two and a half years. When I walked in, I did not have an executive team. It was an organization in crisis with no Kaizen experience.
I started with one of our facilities staff. We converted an old mop room that had a shower and an old sink. We introduced a Kanban system through our contract with a janitorial service firm. We cleaned it up, put in shelving, and analyzed the supplies. I walked through spaces on the Gemba and found we had toilet paper and cleaning supplies stuffed in nooks and crannies–probably two or three years' worth.
Then I addressed document management. On my Gemba walks, I noticed a huge number of storage boxes and file cabinets. ARMA averages are real instructive. We started a document management process and created an A3. We found we had something like 93 or 94 drawers accumulating paper. It cost about $20,000 to $25,000 annually to maintain one of those, and I was paying something like $93,000 a year just for the space they occupied. Those two items were what I used to introduce staff to the concepts of Lean.
Training Within Industry (TWI)
Mark Graban: I was wondering if you could talk about the training approach you're using, and in particular how Training Within Industry (TWI) is a part of that.
Patrick Anderson: I was able to acquaint my executives with Lean thinking during the hiring process. I brought the whole team out to a Lean Frontiers event. My COO embraced going to the Gemba; instead of sitting in his office, 80% of the time he was out dealing with his direct reports.
We put together a Lean Champion training matrix with about 19 modules, and we adapted them to TWI. We created standard work for Lean tools. The first one was “Problems.” The first descriptor was: identify a problem. Surprisingly, many people don't realize when they face a problem; they think it's just part of the workplace. The second thing: write it down.
We went through the TWI method–doing, then explaining, explaining with key points, and explaining with reasons for key points. We had 10 employees sign up with a cohort of trainers. The spread has been even beyond our own organization; one of our subsidiaries reported seven Kaizens completed or in process.
Performance Management and Hoshin Kanri
Mark Graban: You're also doing a lot of work from a management system perspective. Can you talk about the RurAL CAP performance management system?.
Patrick Anderson: Dr. Tom Jackson introduced me to performance management and the X-Matrix at Chugachmiut, but we didn't have the sophistication then. Now, trying to incorporate strategic thinking and build towards a Hoshin Kanri cycle, we adopted two initial breakthrough initiatives: organizational fitness and compliance.
For compliance, we created an A3 called “Many into One.” We have federal regulations, state grant requirements, and FARs requirements. We want to set a high standard of inspection at the source. We're building standard work in every area where we have compliance requirements, looking at handoffs, cycle time, and Takt time.
If we understand the variation, I can explain to staff that we don't have 10 minutes; we have 10 minutes plus or minus the variation. As we build that from the virtual floor, it goes up to an A3, then to executives managing projects, and ultimately into my X-Matrix, where we have performance targets.
We developed Kanban boards with story cards to look at backlog and prioritization. It's successful in our grant management team. We did a critical path method analysis and looked at handoffs. Because they understood how long it took to do an average grant, we could create space using Agile processes.
Respect for People
Mark Graban: How do you get others aligned around what respect for people really translates to on an ongoing basis?.
Patrick Anderson: The first step is modeling it. I am incredibly accessible. When I hired my three executives, I told them I really don't care if they make a mistake; I only want them to write the problem down and solve it.
We began to revise our command and control tendencies. I would say constantly, “I am not telling you or asking you to do anything. I am inviting you to a conversation.” I paid for a Lean Frontiers event to learn about Humble Inquiry. We are not telling people what to do; we're asking them what they see in the problem.
This has paid off. We have cut down a huge volume of workers' comp claims; in the last reporting period, we had none. We are a human workplace. I work with heart people, and that's what they expect out of us.
Mark Graban: You mentioned baseball is important to you. I blogged today about an article in the Wall Street Journal titled “Baseball's Newest Market Inefficiency: Treating People Like People.” The Royals and Twins didn't release minor league players during the pandemic. It's strange that treating people like people seems so unusual.
Patrick Anderson: What an amazing concept. I feel the workplace needs to be similar. I have people who hired on because they want to work. Let's accept that there are fun parts and parts that are not so fun. Let's make standard work solve problems to make the non-fun parts more fun.
I introduce Ann Mei Chang's thinking from Lean Impact: setting big audacious goals, quick experiments, and accepting failure. For example, I encouraged staff to submit a grant for hydroponics. We didn't get the big grant, but staff were so inspired they secured funding from SNAP to put hydroponic walls in our Head Start programs.
Team of Teams
Mark Graban: One other book we both really like is General Stanley McChrystal's Team of Teams. What does that book mean to you?.
Patrick Anderson: General McChrystal is brilliant. It took him years to move from command and control to Team of Teams. When I read about him being woken up to approve a battle scenario and asking the soldier, “What do you think?”, that resonated.
We realized we couldn't just let go into a Team of Teams approach immediately. I had two retired Army officers on staff who taught me “Commander's Intent.” My intent is to show them I want Lean protocols built in. So we moved gradually to break down silos. Right now, we are in a “command and control of teams” phase because we are training collaboration.
The ultimate goal is a very distributed allocation of duties. If you know how to identify a problem and can apply the “Nike principle” (Just Do It), then Nike the heck out of every problem you find. That's where we're at.
Mark Graban: Patrick, I want to thank you for sharing what you're working on. I think what you share will inspire others in the nonprofit and healthcare realms. Thank you so much.
Patrick Anderson: Absolutely. When you have time for an additional podcast, we have an initiative called “Breakthrough Initiative for Whole Community Healing,” based on my learnings from Lean.
Mark Graban: I have time anytime you want to do that. Thank you.
If you’re working to build a culture where people feel safe to speak up, solve problems, and improve every day, I’d be glad to help. Let’s talk about how to strengthen Psychological Safety and Continuous Improvement in your organization.
