Lean Podcast #393 — @WoodyZuill on Mob Programming and the Power of Flow  

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Joining me for Episode #393 of the podcast is Woody Zuill, who does, per his website, “mob Programming workshopstalks and presentations on agile topics,” and he coaches and guides “folks interested in creating a wonderful workplace where people can excel in their work, and in their life.”

I had a chance to meet Woody last year when I saw him speak at an Agile conference and I really enjoyed his perspectives. Woody has also participated quite a bit in a “Lean Consultants Stuck at Home” group that I had organized earlier in the pandemic times.

Topics today include “flow” in software development, the difference between “mob programming” and “paired programming,” and the “no estimates movement” and why that is important. I hope you'll find this interesting even if you don't work in software.

You can listen to the audio or watch the video, below.


Streaming Audio Player:



Video of the Episode:


For a link to this episode, refer people to www.leanblog.org/393.


Questions, Topics, and More

  • Introductions
  • How did you get into programming?
  • What is “flow” in software development?
    • You saw pull systems in manufacturing…
  • What is “mob programming”?
    • Vs. “paired programming”
    • Reminds Mark of “collaborative care”
  • Dilbert boss would say it's less efficient?
    • Efficient vs effective?
  • Cynefin framework
  • What is the “no estimates” movement and why is that important?

A thought of mine that Woody likes to share on Twitter:

Thanks for listening or watching!

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Mark Graban is an internationally-recognized consultant, author, and professional speaker who has worked in healthcare, manufacturing, and startups. His latest book is Measures of Success: React Less, Lead Better, Improve More. He is author of the Shingo Award-winning books Lean Hospitals and Healthcare Kaizen, as well as The Executive Guide to Healthcare Kaizen. He also published the anthology Practicing Lean that benefits the Louise H. Batz Patient Safety Foundation, where Mark is a board member. Mark is also a Senior Advisor to the technology company KaiNexus.

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