Podcast #333 – Jean-Marc Legentil and Marc-Olivier Legentil, The Toyota Kata Memory Jogger

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Marc-Olivier and Jean-Marc at KataCon 5 this week

My guests for Episode #333 are Jean-Marc Legentil and Marc-Olivier Legentil, father-and-son Lean consultants from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. They work together in the firm Bell-Nordic Consulting.

I've had the pleasure of meeting both of them on numerous trips to Montreal and was happy to hear they were part of the team that created the latest book in the excellent “Memory Jogger” series:

The Toyota Kata Memory Jogger 

I hope you enjoy our conversation about Toyota Kata, improvement, leadership, and more.


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For a link to this episode, refer people to www.leanblog.org/333.

For earlier episodes of my podcast, visit the main Podcast page, which includes information on how to subscribe via RSS, through Android appsor via Apple Podcasts.  You can also subscribe and listen via Stitcher or Spotify.

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Questions, Topics, and Links:

  • In terms of introductions, Jean-Marc – how did you first get introduced to Lean?
    • Changes in vocabulary over time, more understanding
  • Marc-Olivier – and you?
    • “Digital native” — Lean native?
  • How did you get introduced to Toyota Kata?
  • What's your “elevator speech” description of Toyota Kata?
    • Improvement Kata
    • Coaching Kata
      • Why is it better to refer to the “coachee” as an “improver” instead of a “learner?”
        • The coach is also a learner too
  • What is the Art of asking question described in the book?
    • Ask questions with an intention
  • How does TK impact an organizational CI culture?
  • Does the Memory Jogger book help people get started with their TK learning and practice, or is this designed for people who have already been using TK?
  • How would you compare TK to PDSA problem solving or A3s?
    • Advantages? Complementary?
    • A scientific approach… routines bring new behaviors
  • “Knowledge is not understanding”
  • Do you expect me to find the solution or know the solution?
  • Telling isn't really engagement… as a coach, you don't need to know all the answers

Video with Jean-Marc Legentil:

See Jean-Marc's videos in French and English

Thanks for listening! Merci!

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Mark Graban is an internationally-recognized consultant, author, and professional speaker who has worked in healthcare, manufacturing, and startups. His latest book is Measures of Success: React Less, Lead Better, Improve More. He is author of the Shingo Award-winning books Lean Hospitals and Healthcare Kaizen, as well as The Executive Guide to Healthcare Kaizen. He also published the anthology Practicing Lean that benefits the Louise H. Batz Patient Safety Foundation, where Mark is a board member. Mark is also a Senior Advisor to the technology company KaiNexus.

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