Comments on: Leanies of the World, Unite! http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/ Mark Graban's leanblog.org - Lean Healthcare, Lean Thinking, Lean Manufacturing, Toyota Production System Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:26:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5717 Anonymous Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:42:49 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5717 Bryan,<br /><br />It's really easy for the union to just sit there and take pot shots. It's a political position - union leadership gets elected. So they pander to their voters the same way a congressman would. Tell 'em what they want to hear and put on a show, then you keep your power. Bryan,

It's really easy for the union to just sit there and take pot shots. It's a political position – union leadership gets elected. So they pander to their voters the same way a congressman would. Tell 'em what they want to hear and put on a show, then you keep your power.

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]]> By: Bryan http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5716 Bryan Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:00:38 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5716 What I find most interesting about the Labor Notes page is that there is no alternative offered. Only criticism. Armchair quarterbacking from any position, other than the genba itself, is quite easy. I find it amusing that in the side bar of the Labor Notes page, there are many links to a cleverly branded "Troublemaker's Blog" and shopping cart links to purchase "Troublemaker Gear".<br /><br />Whether union or non-union, we have to ask critics if they are going to continue to be part of the problem using antagonism or try to improve their situation with a non-zero-sum paradigm. What I find most interesting about the Labor Notes page is that there is no alternative offered. Only criticism. Armchair quarterbacking from any position, other than the genba itself, is quite easy. I find it amusing that in the side bar of the Labor Notes page, there are many links to a cleverly branded "Troublemaker's Blog" and shopping cart links to purchase "Troublemaker Gear".

Whether union or non-union, we have to ask critics if they are going to continue to be part of the problem using antagonism or try to improve their situation with a non-zero-sum paradigm.

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]]> By: Andrew Bishop http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5713 Andrew Bishop Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:53:33 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5713 Let's face it - most "lean" deployments or transformations are not ultimately driven by a vision of "long-term mutual prosperity" as at Toyota. Even if the operations people and some others higher up get the significance of this as a foundation of success, if the sole purposes of enterprise remain maximizing return to shareholders and maintaining management in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed, then it is pretty likely that there will be an atmosphere (and a reality) of taking advantage of front-line workers. I'll echo (and paraphrase) Bob Emiliani's comment - if you don't change the way you think, why would you expect different results?<br /><br />This is one of the core problems with transformations that start at the middle. It's not just about "getting the execs on board" with change (they are generally pretty enthusiastic when the bottom line starts improving). There is a culture of division between management and labor that our correspondents at "Labor Notes" are well justified in recognizing and calling out. <br /><br />I saw W. E. Deming in a video conference in the early 90's (the year, and his age, I think!) when he delivered one of his great lines (paraphrasing): "Think win-win? What other option is there? There is no such thing a win-lose because that always turns into lose-lose."<br /><br />As we explore "Lean not LAME" or whatever it ends up, let's catalog some North American examples of "long-term mutual prosperity" resulting from a business following the Toyota way.<br /><br />-ALB Let's face it – most "lean" deployments or transformations are not ultimately driven by a vision of "long-term mutual prosperity" as at Toyota. Even if the operations people and some others higher up get the significance of this as a foundation of success, if the sole purposes of enterprise remain maximizing return to shareholders and maintaining management in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed, then it is pretty likely that there will be an atmosphere (and a reality) of taking advantage of front-line workers. I'll echo (and paraphrase) Bob Emiliani's comment – if you don't change the way you think, why would you expect different results?

This is one of the core problems with transformations that start at the middle. It's not just about "getting the execs on board" with change (they are generally pretty enthusiastic when the bottom line starts improving). There is a culture of division between management and labor that our correspondents at "Labor Notes" are well justified in recognizing and calling out.

I saw W. E. Deming in a video conference in the early 90's (the year, and his age, I think!) when he delivered one of his great lines (paraphrasing): "Think win-win? What other option is there? There is no such thing a win-lose because that always turns into lose-lose."

As we explore "Lean not LAME" or whatever it ends up, let's catalog some North American examples of "long-term mutual prosperity" resulting from a business following the Toyota way.

-ALB

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]]> By: Rick Foreman http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5711 Rick Foreman Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:40:59 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5711 Mark; <br />As with Jamie, I've experienced great success in union environments with continuous improvement methodology. It wasn't really hard but certainly different. In many cases, the union environment has set rules, which establish the boundaries in which to operate. I'm finding more and more that the word "lean" has a tendency to hinder and set automatic boundaries to the purpose of continuous improvement. We're going with a CI or continuous improvement wordage because we simply want to consistently improve on what we're doing today. Excellent comments by all. Mark;
As with Jamie, I've experienced great success in union environments with continuous improvement methodology. It wasn't really hard but certainly different. In many cases, the union environment has set rules, which establish the boundaries in which to operate. I'm finding more and more that the word "lean" has a tendency to hinder and set automatic boundaries to the purpose of continuous improvement. We're going with a CI or continuous improvement wordage because we simply want to consistently improve on what we're doing today. Excellent comments by all.

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]]> By: Michael Lombard http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5710 Michael Lombard Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:33:56 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5710 Yeah, "leanies" is not a good word. The whole Lean lexicon is a bit difficult to use. There's a lot of jargon (which I know is a pet peeve of Jamie Flinchbaugh), and the word 'lean' itself is just not marketable. It just doesn't invoke the positive thoughts that you'd like to have associated with such a wonderful methodology. I know it's just a superficial issue, but for some reason, lots of people just can't get past the negative connotations associated with the word 'lean.'<br /><br />I still like Scott McDuffee's Fruit Salad Production System :) Yeah, "leanies" is not a good word. The whole Lean lexicon is a bit difficult to use. There's a lot of jargon (which I know is a pet peeve of Jamie Flinchbaugh), and the word 'lean' itself is just not marketable. It just doesn't invoke the positive thoughts that you'd like to have associated with such a wonderful methodology. I know it's just a superficial issue, but for some reason, lots of people just can't get past the negative connotations associated with the word 'lean.'

I still like Scott McDuffee's Fruit Salad Production System :)

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5709 Mark Graban Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:02:20 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5709 On Twitter, @shawnevandeusen wrote:<br /> <br />Worth reading in spite of the title - "Leanies"? RT @flinchbaugh @leanblog: New Post: Leanies of the World, Unite! http://u.mavrev.com/08dlm<br /><br />Fair enough. I hate the term "leanies" and normally don't use it (and I cringe when I hear it). But I wanted a parallel to "workers". Could have also gone with "Lean thinkers of the world, Unite!" On Twitter, @shawnevandeusen wrote:

Worth reading in spite of the title – "Leanies"? RT @flinchbaugh @leanblog: New Post: Leanies of the World, Unite! http://u.mavrev.com/08dlm

Fair enough. I hate the term "leanies" and normally don't use it (and I cringe when I hear it). But I wanted a parallel to "workers". Could have also gone with "Lean thinkers of the world, Unite!"

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]]> By: Jason Morin http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5708 Jason Morin Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:46:37 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5708 While it would take years, I think the entire Lean community should make a concerted effort to move away from the word "lean," simply because the word is too often misconstrued and misused. I frequently hear "they run a lean operation" which has nothing to do with true Lean.<br /><br />I don't know the answer, but there has to be a better word or acronym, something that better represents the values and philosophy of TPS and Lean. While it would take years, I think the entire Lean community should make a concerted effort to move away from the word "lean," simply because the word is too often misconstrued and misused. I frequently hear "they run a lean operation" which has nothing to do with true Lean.

I don't know the answer, but there has to be a better word or acronym, something that better represents the values and philosophy of TPS and Lean.

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5707 Mark Graban Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:17:28 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5707 Good point, Mike. I wondered about that. Domain names are cheap!<br /><br />Thanks also to Jamie and Bob for their comments. Anyone who is a new reader of the blog should check out Jamie's book (Hitchhiker's Guide to Lean) and Bob's many books in the "Real Lean" series (I linked to him above in the "Respect for People" phrase). Good point, Mike. I wondered about that. Domain names are cheap!

Thanks also to Jamie and Bob for their comments. Anyone who is a new reader of the blog should check out Jamie's book (Hitchhiker's Guide to Lean) and Bob's many books in the "Real Lean" series (I linked to him above in the "Respect for People" phrase).

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]]> By: Michael Lombard http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5706 Michael Lombard Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:13:35 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5706 I like the idea of a web page devoted to clarifying the difference between Lean and LAME. I'm not sure what kind of web page would be most effective, but I could envision a wiki format that allows Lean advocates to build a common knowledge base that can be edited, refined, and continuously improved. This knowledge base could be split into two main branches: 1) information explaining what Lean really is, and 2) information dispelling myths about Lean and explaining what LAME is. Whatever you come up with, it will be much appreciated by the Lean community, I'm sure.<br /><br />One minor note about the domain name, LAMEnotLean. It kind of sounds like a rally cry choosing LAME over Lean. Kind of like "love not war." To clarify, you could reverse the order to "Lean not LAME" or go with something like "LAME aint Lean." Just a thought. I like the idea of a web page devoted to clarifying the difference between Lean and LAME. I'm not sure what kind of web page would be most effective, but I could envision a wiki format that allows Lean advocates to build a common knowledge base that can be edited, refined, and continuously improved. This knowledge base could be split into two main branches: 1) information explaining what Lean really is, and 2) information dispelling myths about Lean and explaining what LAME is. Whatever you come up with, it will be much appreciated by the Lean community, I'm sure.

One minor note about the domain name, LAMEnotLean. It kind of sounds like a rally cry choosing LAME over Lean. Kind of like "love not war." To clarify, you could reverse the order to "Lean not LAME" or go with something like "LAME aint Lean." Just a thought.

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]]> By: Bob Emiliani http://www.leanblog.org/2009/11/leanies-of-world-unite/#comment-5705 Bob Emiliani Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:42:31 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/11/leanies-of-the-world-unite/#comment-5705 De-skilling, speeding-up, etc., are persistent, long-standing criticisms of Lean from workers - union-represented or not. These criticisms go back to antecedents to Lean such as 1880s Scientific Management. Mr. Kutalik is reflecting a reality which should force us to recognize how spectacularly unsuccessful the leaders of progressive management, as well as progressive management practitioners, have been over many decades at addressing these basic worker concerns. That they linger on after more than 100 years should tell us that we remain deficient in our approach to advancing Lean management (and thus practitioners' approach to applying Lean management)- which as I have pointed out in one of my books, is largely the same today as it was 100 years ago. We're doing the same thing but expecting a different result, which does not seem likely to happen. De-skilling, speeding-up, etc., are persistent, long-standing criticisms of Lean from workers – union-represented or not. These criticisms go back to antecedents to Lean such as 1880s Scientific Management. Mr. Kutalik is reflecting a reality which should force us to recognize how spectacularly unsuccessful the leaders of progressive management, as well as progressive management practitioners, have been over many decades at addressing these basic worker concerns. That they linger on after more than 100 years should tell us that we remain deficient in our approach to advancing Lean management (and thus practitioners' approach to applying Lean management)- which as I have pointed out in one of my books, is largely the same today as it was 100 years ago. We're doing the same thing but expecting a different result, which does not seem likely to happen.

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