Comments on: What’s the Buzz on Lean Certifications? http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/ Mark Graban's leanblog.org - Lean Healthcare, Lean Thinking, Lean Manufacturing, Toyota Production System Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:59:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Samir Rishi http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-28492 Samir Rishi Mon, 09 Jan 2012 21:01:09 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-28492 Just went through the U of Michigan program in Dec 2011. Steve was a phenomenal instructor, with a great wealth of knowledge. Highly recommended course for those who want to learn lean. Just went through the U of Michigan program in Dec 2011. Steve was a phenomenal instructor, with a great wealth of knowledge. Highly recommended course for those who want to learn lean.

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]]> By: AME Conference and Lean Certification « Values Stream Alignment http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-26348 AME Conference and Lean Certification « Values Stream Alignment Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:19:30 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-26348 [...] If you would like to see how others, including myself, viewed lean certification several years ago, there is a great blog post with over 60 comments at Mark Graban’s Lean Blog.  http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/ [...] [...] If you would like to see how others, including myself, viewed lean certification several years ago, there is a great blog post with over 60 comments at Mark Graban’s Lean Blog.  http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/ [...]

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]]> By: Kingy http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-21170 Kingy Thu, 02 Jun 2011 14:45:25 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-21170 What a great set of posts! I have recently been mulling the idea of creating an internal certification/recognition programme for lean. I am very clear that while it is important to build any certification on a solid theoretical foundation, it would be heavily biased towards recognising the practical application of the lean approach (as the SME certification does I feel). But after reading all of these posts would I still want to? Well, I still feel that when applied within a single organisation it helps on a number of fronts: - It is something for staff to aspire to and encourages wider organisational involvement. The recognition component is crucial and this is clearly an internal recognition of achievement. - It provides a measure of progress/skills on our lean journey, we're three years in and developing depth of skills continues to be a challenge. This helps with self-development and the need for depth of knowledge rather than just bredth. - It is a measure of standardisation - variation from the standard can be difficult to spot when looking organisation wide. I always fear that the signal-to-noise becomes a problem as the message translates across the organisation. The Peer Review component (or Certification Panel) is a method of maintaining consistency. I too have some bias as a certified MBB in GE for many years. And as indicated by others my certification got me an interview for my current job. My experience got me the job, but I needed to get an interview first! I always saw the old GE approach as effecive because it motivated a broad range of people to engage and achieve the best they could. It only went wrong when it started to become less practical and more of a tick-box approach. I'll be sure not forget that point! What a great set of posts! I have recently been mulling the idea of creating an internal certification/recognition programme for lean. I am very clear that while it is important to build any certification on a solid theoretical foundation, it would be heavily biased towards recognising the practical application of the lean approach (as the SME certification does I feel).

But after reading all of these posts would I still want to? Well, I still feel that when applied within a single organisation it helps on a number of fronts:

- It is something for staff to aspire to and encourages wider organisational involvement. The recognition component is crucial and this is clearly an internal recognition of achievement.

- It provides a measure of progress/skills on our lean journey, we’re three years in and developing depth of skills continues to be a challenge. This helps with self-development and the need for depth of knowledge rather than just bredth.

- It is a measure of standardisation – variation from the standard can be difficult to spot when looking organisation wide. I always fear that the signal-to-noise becomes a problem as the message translates across the organisation. The Peer Review component (or Certification Panel) is a method of maintaining consistency.

I too have some bias as a certified MBB in GE for many years. And as indicated by others my certification got me an interview for my current job. My experience got me the job, but I needed to get an interview first!

I always saw the old GE approach as effecive because it motivated a broad range of people to engage and achieve the best they could. It only went wrong when it started to become less practical and more of a tick-box approach. I’ll be sure not forget that point!

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-20874 Mark Graban Thu, 26 May 2011 02:12:14 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-20874 @ 24kilo: Congrats on the certification. You seem to healthy attitude about it. I'd never criticize an individual for learning... my main criticism of certifications is that those doing the hiring often view them inappropriately (such as not valuing somebody without a certification who has much more experience). @ 24kilo: Congrats on the certification. You seem to healthy attitude about it. I’d never criticize an individual for learning… my main criticism of certifications is that those doing the hiring often view them inappropriately (such as not valuing somebody without a certification who has much more experience).

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]]> By: 24kilo http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-20863 24kilo Wed, 25 May 2011 16:06:33 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-20863 I just finished my Lean Implementer/Facilitator course two weeks ago. The course was 200 hrs with a Certificate after Final testing and board review. For me the certificate is saying that I accomplished something and that I have some knowledge of lean. I say some knowledge because for every section of the course, I found that my eyes were open to how much there was still to learn. Don't get me wrong I'm proud of the certificate, But it reminds me that there is so much more to do to get the company on track. I just finished my Lean Implementer/Facilitator course two weeks ago. The course was 200 hrs with a Certificate after Final testing and board review. For me the certificate is saying that I accomplished something and that I have some knowledge of lean. I say some knowledge because for every section of the course, I found that my eyes were open to how much there was still to learn. Don’t get me wrong I’m proud of the certificate, But it reminds me that there is so much more to do to get the company on track.

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-20570 Mark Graban Thu, 12 May 2011 14:05:45 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-20570 Freek - Congratulations on that milestone, and I mean it. I wouldn't criticize an individual who does a certification for personal development and learning. What I would criticize is organizations that use certification as a hard-set requirement, filtering out those who don't have certification. Or I would criticize people who offer "certification" as a trivial exercise that doesn't show demonstrated ability to do something with Lean knowledge. It sounds like you were going about things the right way, Freek. Freek – Congratulations on that milestone, and I mean it. I wouldn’t criticize an individual who does a certification for personal development and learning.

What I would criticize is organizations that use certification as a hard-set requirement, filtering out those who don’t have certification. Or I would criticize people who offer “certification” as a trivial exercise that doesn’t show demonstrated ability to do something with Lean knowledge.

It sounds like you were going about things the right way, Freek.

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]]> By: Freek (@cfdekker) http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-20569 Freek (@cfdekker) Thu, 12 May 2011 13:33:30 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-20569 Ouch... when you wrote this back in 2009 I had just started out on a Lean training (an 'official unofficial' Lean Practitioner Course with certification at the end) through LMI, Dutch affiliate to LEI. And because tomorrow is certification day (hopefully). So I've just been going over my A3's for the umpteenth time, studying and studying and then I read this post. Just happening to be tweeted about by you today as your most commented on post up till now.... So ouch. It hurts. Hoping to certify tomorrow nevertheless. ;-) Ouch… when you wrote this back in 2009 I had just started out on a Lean training (an ‘official unofficial’ Lean Practitioner Course with certification at the end) through LMI, Dutch affiliate to LEI. And because tomorrow is certification day (hopefully). So I’ve just been going over my A3′s for the umpteenth time, studying and studying and then I read this post. Just happening to be tweeted about by you today as your most commented on post up till now…. So ouch. It hurts. Hoping to certify tomorrow nevertheless. ;-)

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]]> By: Dan Feliciano http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-18764 Dan Feliciano Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:03:31 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-18764 Unfortunately, I agree with Mark. I think certifications are useless and a poor indicator of someone's ability to get the job done. I once worked at a Medical College in the Performance Improvement Department and the absolute best process improvement expert was an older African American women who couldn't read. She was brilliant at finding low cost solutions to problems. She could never pass a certification exam. Conversely, I've worked with many Six Sigma Master Black Belts who couldn't get crap done... and I'm seeing more and more of these certified Belts. Unfortunately, I agree with Mark. I think certifications are useless and a poor indicator of someone’s ability to get the job done. I once worked at a Medical College in the Performance Improvement Department and the absolute best process improvement expert was an older African American women who couldn’t read. She was brilliant at finding low cost solutions to problems. She could never pass a certification exam. Conversely, I’ve worked with many Six Sigma Master Black Belts who couldn’t get crap done… and I’m seeing more and more of these certified Belts.

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]]> By: Charles Brown http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-13854 Charles Brown Wed, 03 Nov 2010 23:47:13 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-13854 Certainly it is very important that one clearly understands and practices Lean in order to know Lean. Lean is more than tools, its the culture of continuous improvement and "Deep Thinking". One can not be considered an expert in Lean without the time on the job. I would chose one with demonstrated abilities over one with only a certification if I were looking for a leader. A certification however is not a negative on a resume. It does show that you understand the theory and hopefully will base your effort with good sound proven methods. Both are important. Same goes for a college degree. Certainly it is very important that one clearly understands and practices Lean in order to know Lean. Lean is more than tools, its the culture of continuous improvement and “Deep Thinking”. One can not be considered an expert in Lean without the time on the job. I would chose one with demonstrated abilities over one with only a certification if I were looking for a leader. A certification however is not a negative on a resume. It does show that you understand the theory and hopefully will base your effort with good sound proven methods. Both are important. Same goes for a college degree.

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]]> By: Mike http://www.leanblog.org/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certification/#comment-13000 Mike Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:44:47 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/09/whats-the-buzz-on-lean-certifications/#comment-13000 I think since it takes 10,000 hours to become "an expert" at something (Ericcson, 1993) certificates for anything less than 5,000 hours (i.e. college) provide a false sense of accomplishment and often produce a "finish line" mentality than once received, the recipient stops. Even with college, we tend to discount the knowledge gained there until additional experience is gained. I think since it takes 10,000 hours to become “an expert” at something (Ericcson, 1993) certificates for anything less than 5,000 hours (i.e. college) provide a false sense of accomplishment and often produce a “finish line” mentality than once received, the recipient stops. Even with college, we tend to discount the knowledge gained there until additional experience is gained.

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