Comments on: Lean Does NOT Turn People into Robots http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/ Mark Graban's leanblog.org - Lean Healthcare, Lean Thinking, Lean Manufacturing, Toyota Production System Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:59:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: A Defense of Lean and of Lean at Starbucks — Lean Blog http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-22971 A Defense of Lean and of Lean at Starbucks — Lean Blog Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:06:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-22971 [...] Of course, the Starbucks VP of Lean, Scott Heydon (who knew they had one), discounts that idea, as does John Shook, pointing out that Lean is about getting ideas from those who do the work. Those of you who visited here with an anti-Lean bias, please read those quotes (if you’re even still reading this). And see this quote about how Toyota engages people. [...] [...] Of course, the Starbucks VP of Lean, Scott Heydon (who knew they had one), discounts that idea, as does John Shook, pointing out that Lean is about getting ideas from those who do the work. Those of you who visited here with an anti-Lean bias, please read those quotes (if you’re even still reading this). And see this quote about how Toyota engages people. [...]

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5346 Mark Graban Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:20:50 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5346 Here is a must read blog post from the Lean Enterprise Institute's own John Shook -- he has coached Starbucks and was mentioned in the WSJ Piece:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.lean.org/shook/2009/08/lean-teachable-moment-starbucks-in-wall.html" rel="nofollow">LINK</a> Here is a must read blog post from the Lean Enterprise Institute's own John Shook — he has coached Starbucks and was mentioned in the WSJ Piece:

LINK

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]]> By: Andrew Bishop http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5340 Andrew Bishop Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:22:04 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5340 Let's not forget a key element of standard work: It's not a straitjacket, but a way to make abnormal conditions and problems abundantly obvious when they arise. Every cycle of work becomes an experiment. Then we (<b>people</b>, not machines) can respond, innovate and improve. <br />-ALB Let's not forget a key element of standard work: It's not a straitjacket, but a way to make abnormal conditions and problems abundantly obvious when they arise. Every cycle of work becomes an experiment. Then we (people, not machines) can respond, innovate and improve.
-ALB

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5339 Mark Graban Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:26:24 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5339 Anon - you're right. There is middle ground between carte blanche and unthinking roboticism.<br /><br />Best practice in healthcare seems to be:<br /><br />1) Here is the standard method<br />2) Follow it UNLESS there is a medically justifiable reason to deviate<br />3) Improve the standard method with new medical evidence<br /><br />The cardiology group in Pennsylvania that standardized elective bypass surgery followed that model:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.leanblog.org/2007/05/elements-of-lean-surgery/" rel="nofollow">LINK</a><br /><br />Even at Toyota, it's "standard-IZED" work, not "standard work." You can't make everything 100% repeatable. Sometimes the work requires judgment. See "Toyota Talent" for a great description of this and thanks to David Meier for helping me understand this (in person and in his book). Anon – you're right. There is middle ground between carte blanche and unthinking roboticism.

Best practice in healthcare seems to be:

1) Here is the standard method
2) Follow it UNLESS there is a medically justifiable reason to deviate
3) Improve the standard method with new medical evidence

The cardiology group in Pennsylvania that standardized elective bypass surgery followed that model:

LINK

Even at Toyota, it's "standard-IZED" work, not "standard work." You can't make everything 100% repeatable. Sometimes the work requires judgment. See "Toyota Talent" for a great description of this and thanks to David Meier for helping me understand this (in person and in his book).

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5338 Anonymous Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:05:49 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5338 Having seen first hand the variation in cost and outcomes freelancing physicians produce I want physicians practicing evidenced based best practice standard work. Yeah there are always exceptions. Giving physicians carte blanche is giving a certain percent permission to practice bad medicine. Having seen first hand the variation in cost and outcomes freelancing physicians produce I want physicians practicing evidenced based best practice standard work. Yeah there are always exceptions. Giving physicians carte blanche is giving a certain percent permission to practice bad medicine.

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]]> By: Liz Guthridge http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5337 Liz Guthridge Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:22:06 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5337 Lean works for all of us, including we creative types who write for a living (and also coach leaders). In its basic form, lean is about serving our customers, getting rid of waste, and adding continual improvements. <br /><br />The Barry Wehmiller Companies(www.barry-wehmiller.com) have discovered that lean is incredibly empowering for their employees on and off the job. This company focuses on People, Purpose and Process--with the people intentionally first. <br /><br />Liz Guthridge, The LEAN Communicator<br />www.leancommunications.com<br />www.twitter/lizguthridge Lean works for all of us, including we creative types who write for a living (and also coach leaders). In its basic form, lean is about serving our customers, getting rid of waste, and adding continual improvements.

The Barry Wehmiller Companies(www.barry-wehmiller.com) have discovered that lean is incredibly empowering for their employees on and off the job. This company focuses on People, Purpose and Process–with the people intentionally first.

Liz Guthridge, The LEAN Communicator
http://www.leancommunications.com
http://www.twitter/lizguthridge

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]]> By: Jim Baran http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5333 Jim Baran Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:44:37 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5333 Right, wrong, or indifferent, good to see several good lean punch points applied. <br /><br />I applaud Starbucks for giving lean a go. Odd comparison with robots when Mr. Potato head was used to make a valid, simple point.<br /> <br />I twitted about Starbucks CEO and Hallmark senior leaders getting together. Hallmark culture is wonderfully unique. They have a Starbucks shop inside their HQ.<br /><br />Hallmark is 3 years into their lean journey. Be interesting to get those eclectic and creative folks together. Perhaps they can come up with a new word besides “lean”. <br /><br />Imagine the “lean” greeting cards we could send to the WSJ? <br /><br />Jim Baran<br />Value Stream Leadership<br />Twitter: LEANVSL Right, wrong, or indifferent, good to see several good lean punch points applied.

I applaud Starbucks for giving lean a go. Odd comparison with robots when Mr. Potato head was used to make a valid, simple point.

I twitted about Starbucks CEO and Hallmark senior leaders getting together. Hallmark culture is wonderfully unique. They have a Starbucks shop inside their HQ.

Hallmark is 3 years into their lean journey. Be interesting to get those eclectic and creative folks together. Perhaps they can come up with a new word besides “lean”.

Imagine the “lean” greeting cards we could send to the WSJ?

Jim Baran
Value Stream Leadership
Twitter: LEANVSL

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5330 Mark Graban Thu, 06 Aug 2009 04:06:31 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5330 William - glad to hear things are good at Hopkins. To be fair to starbucks, we don't know if the wsj only got half the story here. Their writers are not lean experts. William – glad to hear things are good at Hopkins. To be fair to starbucks, we don't know if the wsj only got half the story here. Their writers are not lean experts.

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]]> By: William http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5329 William Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:07:31 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5329 Starbucks obviously needs some operations management help. Take a look at how Johns Hopkins is running their Lean initiative. Absolutely fantastic and the customer feedback shows it. In my eyes, Lean is just as critical in services as it is in manufacturing. To say that Lean breeds "robotic" employees only demonstrates how little Starbuck's management knows about Lean. I'd advise them to get with the program before they get left behind! They can start by learning from someone doing it right.....Johns Hopkins. No robots over there! Starbucks obviously needs some operations management help. Take a look at how Johns Hopkins is running their Lean initiative. Absolutely fantastic and the customer feedback shows it. In my eyes, Lean is just as critical in services as it is in manufacturing. To say that Lean breeds "robotic" employees only demonstrates how little Starbuck's management knows about Lean. I'd advise them to get with the program before they get left behind! They can start by learning from someone doing it right…..Johns Hopkins. No robots over there!

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]]> By: Jamie Flinchbaugh http://www.leanblog.org/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5328 Jamie Flinchbaugh Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:43:24 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2009/08/lean-does-not-turn-people-into-robots/#comment-5328 Thanks for keeping this conversation going. <br /><br />To address a point made by Anon (at least one of the Anons), he says he'd rather have some bad and good experiences. The data overwhelmingly suggest that he's lying. Maybe not him personally, but that people say they like an eclectic experience but in the end when you have one bad experience, you are DONE with that service provider. <br /><br />This is why Starbucks put out of business so many local coffee shops. The "locals" (I've done this myself) would sit in Starbucks talking about what a shame it is "Anon's Coffee Shop" is closing down the street, when in fact it was us who put them out of business because we were tired of long waits, leaking cups, and stale coffee.<br /><br />On the overall point of the thread here: if lean is done well, it doesn't turn people into robots. It helps remove the trivial so they can focus on the important. Such as, for example, the customer. Is Starbucks doing lean right or wrong? I don't have a clue. We're all using as evidence a story written by a reporter who spent 1/2 a day asking questions about a topic they didn't understand in the first place. Let's not read too much into that. <br /><br />Thanks again all, great dialogue, glad people at least are excited to talk about this. Thanks for keeping this conversation going.

To address a point made by Anon (at least one of the Anons), he says he'd rather have some bad and good experiences. The data overwhelmingly suggest that he's lying. Maybe not him personally, but that people say they like an eclectic experience but in the end when you have one bad experience, you are DONE with that service provider.

This is why Starbucks put out of business so many local coffee shops. The "locals" (I've done this myself) would sit in Starbucks talking about what a shame it is "Anon's Coffee Shop" is closing down the street, when in fact it was us who put them out of business because we were tired of long waits, leaking cups, and stale coffee.

On the overall point of the thread here: if lean is done well, it doesn't turn people into robots. It helps remove the trivial so they can focus on the important. Such as, for example, the customer. Is Starbucks doing lean right or wrong? I don't have a clue. We're all using as evidence a story written by a reporter who spent 1/2 a day asking questions about a topic they didn't understand in the first place. Let's not read too much into that.

Thanks again all, great dialogue, glad people at least are excited to talk about this.

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