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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Handwashing from David Mann</title>
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	<link>http://www.leanblog.org/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/</link>
	<description>Mark Graban&#039;s leanblog.org - Lean Healthcare, Lean Thinking, Lean Manufacturing, Toyota Production System</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Graban</title>
		<link>http://www.leanblog.org/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/#comment-1877</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Graban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 16:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/#comment-1877</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a news story that shows how at least one Dentist doesn&#039;t have common sense or common decency.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Yahoo news story:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://tinyurl.com/2rahza&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;A British dentist was found guilty Thursday of urinating in his surgery sink and using dental tools meant for patients to clean his fingernails and ears.&lt;br/&gt;ADVERTISEMENT&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A medical tribunal said it was satisfied the evidence showed 51-year-old Alan Hutchinson, who &quot;routinely&quot; did not wear gloves or wash his hands, had risked the health of &quot;himself, staff and patients&quot; for more than 28 years.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A dental nurse who worked for Hutchinson for 16 years said she had caught him urinating in the sink more than once.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;He was tucking something into his trousers before zipping them up hastily. I walked over and I was behind him. He moved to the left and I could smell urine,&quot; the nurse told the tribunal.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A later hearing will decide if the dentist&#039;s unhygienic habits impaired his ability to treat patients, and if so, whether he should banned from practicing.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m not going to panic and assume ALL dentists are doing this.  But still.... how does this happen in a case like this?  I&#039;m sure his staff KNEW he wasn&#039;t wearing gloves.... I guess if they reported him, he&#039;d get shut down and they&#039;d lose jobs??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a news story that shows how at least one Dentist doesn&#8217;t have common sense or common decency.</p>
<p>Yahoo news story:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/2rahza" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2rahza</a></p>
<p>&#8220;A British dentist was found guilty Thursday of urinating in his surgery sink and using dental tools meant for patients to clean his fingernails and ears.<br />ADVERTISEMENT</p>
<p>A medical tribunal said it was satisfied the evidence showed 51-year-old Alan Hutchinson, who &#8220;routinely&#8221; did not wear gloves or wash his hands, had risked the health of &#8220;himself, staff and patients&#8221; for more than 28 years.</p>
<p>A dental nurse who worked for Hutchinson for 16 years said she had caught him urinating in the sink more than once.</p>
<p>&#8220;He was tucking something into his trousers before zipping them up hastily. I walked over and I was behind him. He moved to the left and I could smell urine,&#8221; the nurse told the tribunal.</p>
<p>A later hearing will decide if the dentist&#8217;s unhygienic habits impaired his ability to treat patients, and if so, whether he should banned from practicing.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to panic and assume ALL dentists are doing this.  But still&#8230;. how does this happen in a case like this?  I&#8217;m sure his staff KNEW he wasn&#8217;t wearing gloves&#8230;. I guess if they reported him, he&#8217;d get shut down and they&#8217;d lose jobs??</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1877" src="http://www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1877', 'add', 'www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-1877-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1877" src="http://www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1877', 'subtract', 'www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-1877-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mark Graban</title>
		<link>http://www.leanblog.org/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/#comment-1876</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Graban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 16:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/#comment-1876</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your thoughts, anonymous.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So if all of this discussion about hand washing is taking place, why the disconnect where we don&#039;t have anything close to 100% compliance?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sure it&#039;s impossible to attribute a death to a single person not washing hands, but is that the point?  Washing hands certainly can&#039;t hurt, can it?  Well if it does hurt the hand washer through dry chapped hands, the hospital should make good hand lotions available through wall dispensers (and many do).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;ve seen studies that say over 60% of us carry MRSA around. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;No downside&quot; to not washing.... other than knowing that you&#039;re helping to spread germs around???&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I agree that there seem to be many organizational cultural barriers that get in the way of good systems to ensure 100% hygiene.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We can&#039;t just throw up our arms and say &quot;oh well.&quot;  We have to try to do better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts, anonymous.</p>
<p>So if all of this discussion about hand washing is taking place, why the disconnect where we don&#8217;t have anything close to 100% compliance?</p>
<p>Sure it&#8217;s impossible to attribute a death to a single person not washing hands, but is that the point?  Washing hands certainly can&#8217;t hurt, can it?  Well if it does hurt the hand washer through dry chapped hands, the hospital should make good hand lotions available through wall dispensers (and many do).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen studies that say over 60% of us carry MRSA around. </p>
<p>&#8220;No downside&#8221; to not washing&#8230;. other than knowing that you&#8217;re helping to spread germs around???</p>
<p>I agree that there seem to be many organizational cultural barriers that get in the way of good systems to ensure 100% hygiene.  </p>
<p>We can&#8217;t just throw up our arms and say &#8220;oh well.&#8221;  We have to try to do better.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1876" src="http://www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1876', 'add', 'www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-1876-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1876" src="http://www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1876', 'subtract', 'www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-1876-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.leanblog.org/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/#comment-1871</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/#comment-1871</guid>
		<description>I dont know where to start.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;ve been in 30+ hospitals both in the UK and US.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In the UK signs, visual information are readily available on the impact of not washing, where one should and should not wash and the requirements to wash.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Information on washing compliance is discussed at every level from Trust Boards and Clinical Governance all the way down through Nursing and Management.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Audit results are well circulated from Board level down. Compliance levels are well known.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Root cause analysis is far trickier. It would be virtually impossible to attribute a HCAI death directly to an individual failing to wash their hands. Was it one of the 4 Consultants, 5 juniors, 20+ nurses, support staff, visitors, cleaners, physio&#039;s, OT&#039;s or someone else?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This would be even trickier to find out given that up to 30% of the population carry MRSA with no symptoms whatsoever.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One of the problems is there is no downside to a clinician not washing their hands. You can not discipline or otherwise castigate an individual that does not work for you. You can not prevent them from practicing medicine. If a nurse does it you could take them through a disciplinary on jeopardizing patient safety but for MD&#039;s you cant.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Naming and shaming will not happen, not with front line staff who behave in a subjugated role to MD&#039;s and Surgeons. They will not stick their head above the proverbial parapet to get it blown off.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Discipline systems work but when they are not applicable they are irrelevant and when dealing with Clinicians hospital disciplinary processes are irrelevant as most MD&#039;s do not work for the hospital. (In the UK this is almost entirely the case)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont know where to start.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been in 30+ hospitals both in the UK and US.</p>
<p>In the UK signs, visual information are readily available on the impact of not washing, where one should and should not wash and the requirements to wash.</p>
<p>Information on washing compliance is discussed at every level from Trust Boards and Clinical Governance all the way down through Nursing and Management.</p>
<p>Audit results are well circulated from Board level down. Compliance levels are well known.</p>
<p>Root cause analysis is far trickier. It would be virtually impossible to attribute a HCAI death directly to an individual failing to wash their hands. Was it one of the 4 Consultants, 5 juniors, 20+ nurses, support staff, visitors, cleaners, physio&#8217;s, OT&#8217;s or someone else?</p>
<p>This would be even trickier to find out given that up to 30% of the population carry MRSA with no symptoms whatsoever.</p>
<p>One of the problems is there is no downside to a clinician not washing their hands. You can not discipline or otherwise castigate an individual that does not work for you. You can not prevent them from practicing medicine. If a nurse does it you could take them through a disciplinary on jeopardizing patient safety but for MD&#8217;s you cant.</p>
<p>Naming and shaming will not happen, not with front line staff who behave in a subjugated role to MD&#8217;s and Surgeons. They will not stick their head above the proverbial parapet to get it blown off.</p>
<p>Discipline systems work but when they are not applicable they are irrelevant and when dealing with Clinicians hospital disciplinary processes are irrelevant as most MD&#8217;s do not work for the hospital. (In the UK this is almost entirely the case)</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1871" src="http://www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1871', 'add', 'www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-1871-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1871" src="http://www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1871', 'subtract', 'www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-1871-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chet Frame</title>
		<link>http://www.leanblog.org/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/#comment-1870</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet Frame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/04/thoughts-on-handwashing-from-david-mann/#comment-1870</guid>
		<description>Good post!  I know that you are focusing on the delivery end, but this is a huge problem for the manufacturing end as well.  In the U.S. about 83%of the population wash their hands after using the toilet. (My informal observing says that it is less.)  In clean room manufacturing the incidence of hand transmitted fecal coliforms is a significant problem.  Hygiene is important.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;For clean manufacturing operations the introduction of coliforms into the process is like pouring a glass of sewage into a barrel of wine.  It becomes a barrel of sewage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post!  I know that you are focusing on the delivery end, but this is a huge problem for the manufacturing end as well.  In the U.S. about 83%of the population wash their hands after using the toilet. (My informal observing says that it is less.)  In clean room manufacturing the incidence of hand transmitted fecal coliforms is a significant problem.  Hygiene is important.</p>
<p>For clean manufacturing operations the introduction of coliforms into the process is like pouring a glass of sewage into a barrel of wine.  It becomes a barrel of sewage.</p>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-1870" src="http://www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1870', 'add', 'www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-1870-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-1870" src="http://www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1870', 'subtract', 'www.leanblog.org/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-1870-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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