Comments on: To Merge or Not To Merge…Lean & TPS http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/ Mark Graban's leanblog.org - Lean Healthcare, Lean Thinking, Lean Manufacturing, Toyota Production System Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:59:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1534 Anonymous Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:07:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1534 While we may not care about how Wikipedia structures their pages, it is important how Lean and TPS is represented to the world. Wikipedia and any other disseminator of information has a part in the marketing of our "product," for better or worse. <br /><br />I actually wish we had something more marketable than either Lean or TPS. The word "lean" only connotates a reduction in something (costs, manpower, etc.). The word "Toyota" in TPS misleads many people to believe that it's really only applicable to the automobile industry or Japanese manufacturing. The people that study and love Lean & TPS can get beyond the limitations of our labels, but our "customers," those who we would like to convert, need something with which they can identify.<br /><br />I'm a shopfloor guy, not a sales type. Believe me, I'm not interested in wasting time on slogans and catchphrases either. I just want to have the best chance possible at convincing my colleagues of the power of...value-stream optimization? While we may not care about how Wikipedia structures their pages, it is important how Lean and TPS is represented to the world. Wikipedia and any other disseminator of information has a part in the marketing of our “product,” for better or worse.

I actually wish we had something more marketable than either Lean or TPS. The word “lean” only connotates a reduction in something (costs, manpower, etc.). The word “Toyota” in TPS misleads many people to believe that it’s really only applicable to the automobile industry or Japanese manufacturing. The people that study and love Lean & TPS can get beyond the limitations of our labels, but our “customers,” those who we would like to convert, need something with which they can identify.

I’m a shopfloor guy, not a sales type. Believe me, I’m not interested in wasting time on slogans and catchphrases either. I just want to have the best chance possible at convincing my colleagues of the power of…value-stream optimization?

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1533 Mark Graban Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:28:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1533 Maybe not the most "Value Added" discussion ever, but maybe it gets folks thinking.<br /><br />To clarify, the way I defined "lean" above isn't what I think what lean should be (lean should include "respect for people", lean and TPS should be synonymous), but I see many companies implementing what they call "lean" as something that doesn't include respect for people. They focus on cutting waste, which then leads to cutting heads and people. That's not "lean" but they call it "lean."<br /><br />So at some point, as Jamie said, I don't care what you call it, just do the right things.<br /><br />For the record, I also could care less about how Wikipedia structures their pages really. Maybe not the most “Value Added” discussion ever, but maybe it gets folks thinking.

To clarify, the way I defined “lean” above isn’t what I think what lean should be (lean should include “respect for people”, lean and TPS should be synonymous), but I see many companies implementing what they call “lean” as something that doesn’t include respect for people. They focus on cutting waste, which then leads to cutting heads and people. That’s not “lean” but they call it “lean.”

So at some point, as Jamie said, I don’t care what you call it, just do the right things.

For the record, I also could care less about how Wikipedia structures their pages really.

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1532 Anonymous Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:17:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1532 I'm always amazed that the highest number of comments usually happen when you question the semantics of what do you call something. And we wonder why so few companies are really lean. Go figure I’m always amazed that the highest number of comments usually happen when you question the semantics of what do you call something. And we wonder why so few companies are really lean. Go figure

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1530 Mark Graban Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:10:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1530 See the post main body for the link to Art's presentation (the link was too long to fit here). See the post main body for the link to Art’s presentation (the link was too long to fit here).

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1528 Anonymous Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:24:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1528 Looking again at Art's pitch, he uses almost the same words as Jamie...<br /><br />"It is not what you call it<br />that counts but why<br />and how you do it that<br />really matters!"<br /><br />But there's a "however"...the rest is a surprise.<br /><br />Have other's seen examples like Art's? <br /><br />I see them every day in my work...I've got many "lathe departments" and many people wondering why they don't flow...but not always observing and asking why, why, why.... Looking again at Art’s pitch, he uses almost the same words as Jamie…

“It is not what you call it
that counts but why
and how you do it that
really matters!”

But there’s a “however”…the rest is a surprise.

Have other’s seen examples like Art’s?

I see them every day in my work…I’ve got many “lathe departments” and many people wondering why they don’t flow…but not always observing and asking why, why, why….

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]]> By: Jamie Flinchbaugh http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1525 Jamie Flinchbaugh Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:59:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1525 Would we be having this discussion if it were not for Wikipedia? I don't care if you call it "the Bob system" or shazaam. It's about what you do, not what it's called. The best lean is better than the worst TPS, and the best TPS is better than the worst LeanSigma, and so on. Would we be having this discussion if it were not for Wikipedia? I don’t care if you call it “the Bob system” or shazaam. It’s about what you do, not what it’s called. The best lean is better than the worst TPS, and the best TPS is better than the worst LeanSigma, and so on.

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1522 Anonymous Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:56:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1522 I took 2 courses at the Toyota Supplier Support Center, and they seemed to avoid discussing anything "lean". In fact, they didn't mention many, almost none, of the "lean tools" like SMED, 5S, VSM, etc.<br /><br />Their message sticks close to their philosophy points:<br />1. Customer first<br />2. People are the most important resource<br />3. Kaizen<br />4. Shop floor focus<br />(straight from the book)<br /><br />Following this philosophy is aiming for True North, which is highest quality, shortest lead time, lowest cost.<br /><br />Their presentation starts with a lengthy discussion of these points, then into the need for stability through problem solving (PDCA), standardized work, and eventually into kanban.<br /><br />Their message is that all the tools really follow this philosophy. Trust the force, and you will succeed.<br /><br />I can really understand that you would arrive at SMED as a result of applying this philosophy. I think their resistance to writing down TPS all those years was because they didn't want the view of their system as a "group of tools" to dilute the fundamental message. They prefer to have their people understand and practice the philosophy, rather than get caught up in a bunch of confusing tool talk.<br /><br />I agree with them. So many people in North America get caught up in "tools and pull" and miss the point of the "system". Especially #2.<br /><br />Art Smalley is my hero for his writings on this subject (his 2006 Shingo presentation really hits the mark). I took 2 courses at the Toyota Supplier Support Center, and they seemed to avoid discussing anything “lean”. In fact, they didn’t mention many, almost none, of the “lean tools” like SMED, 5S, VSM, etc.

Their message sticks close to their philosophy points:
1. Customer first
2. People are the most important resource
3. Kaizen
4. Shop floor focus
(straight from the book)

Following this philosophy is aiming for True North, which is highest quality, shortest lead time, lowest cost.

Their presentation starts with a lengthy discussion of these points, then into the need for stability through problem solving (PDCA), standardized work, and eventually into kanban.

Their message is that all the tools really follow this philosophy. Trust the force, and you will succeed.

I can really understand that you would arrive at SMED as a result of applying this philosophy. I think their resistance to writing down TPS all those years was because they didn’t want the view of their system as a “group of tools” to dilute the fundamental message. They prefer to have their people understand and practice the philosophy, rather than get caught up in a bunch of confusing tool talk.

I agree with them. So many people in North America get caught up in “tools and pull” and miss the point of the “system”. Especially #2.

Art Smalley is my hero for his writings on this subject (his 2006 Shingo presentation really hits the mark).

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1521 Anonymous Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:45:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1521 No, it wasn't. Maytag's website says they started Lean Sigma in 1998. Are they the first company to combine those names? No, it wasn’t. Maytag’s website says they started Lean Sigma in 1998. Are they the first company to combine those names?

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1518 Anonymous Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:32:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1518 I believe Lean or LeanSigma was coined by Maytag I believe Lean or LeanSigma was coined by Maytag

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]]> By: Karen Wilhelm http://www.leanblog.org/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-mergelean-tps/#comment-1514 Karen Wilhelm Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:22:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2007/01/to-merge-or-not-to-merge-lean-tps/#comment-1514 There should be separate articles for "lean"-anything and Toyota Production System. Articles should have "see" references to each other. That's my opinion based on 30 years of reference book and website publishing. There should be separate articles for “lean”-anything and Toyota Production System. Articles should have “see” references to each other. That’s my opinion based on 30 years of reference book and website publishing.

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