Comments on: WSJ’s Wrong Conclusion on Frederick Taylor http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/ Mark Graban's leanblog.org - Lean Healthcare, Lean Thinking, Lean Manufacturing, Toyota Production System Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:59:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Time & Motion Studies Are Not “Discredited,” Just How They Are Used — Lean Blog http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-20856 Time & Motion Studies Are Not “Discredited,” Just How They Are Used — Lean Blog Wed, 25 May 2011 09:02:38 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-20856 [...] calls out Frederick W. Taylor, one of the fathers of industrial engineering, to criticize his outdated separation of thinking and doing, that improvement was only to come from the educated expert class. Taylorist mindsets are very [...] [...] calls out Frederick W. Taylor, one of the fathers of industrial engineering, to criticize his outdated separation of thinking and doing, that improvement was only to come from the educated expert class. Taylorist mindsets are very [...]

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]]> By: Ordinary Cannibalism, Compassion and the Culturally Accepted « Twingle http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-20138 Ordinary Cannibalism, Compassion and the Culturally Accepted « Twingle Tue, 12 Apr 2011 04:32:51 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-20138 [...] with an article about Cannibalism?  Because from what I’m reading, Taylor himself was just reacting to his own circumstances, coming up with what seemed to be the best solution for what I gathered he saw as our dark, lazy [...] [...] with an article about Cannibalism?  Because from what I’m reading, Taylor himself was just reacting to his own circumstances, coming up with what seemed to be the best solution for what I gathered he saw as our dark, lazy [...]

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-11358 Mark Graban Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:23:28 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-11358 John, you're right. And it's a shame that Taylorism is alive and well in any industry, yet alone healthcare where the stakes are so high. Thanks for your comment and your leadership. John's book for those who haven't heard about it: http://lnbg.us/1Lq John, you’re right. And it’s a shame that Taylorism is alive and well in any industry, yet alone healthcare where the stakes are so high.

Thanks for your comment and your leadership.

John’s book for those who haven’t heard about it:

http://lnbg.us/1Lq

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]]> By: John Toussaint http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-11351 John Toussaint Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:48:24 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-11351 Piece rate pay in healthcare leads to silo thinking and massive waste with increase cost to the customer.We have been trying to tear down silos for years at Thedacare which piece rate pay only builds up. One of the ways we have done it is to have a single bonus formula for everyone in the organization.If the work force collectively hits the target everybody gets the bonus.It has led to improved team work and staff being willing to work across departments to take waste out of patient value streams. But I would also agree with most of the bloggers,the Taylor method is alive and well in most of the healthcare organizations I visit. Piece rate pay in healthcare leads to silo thinking and massive waste with increase cost to the customer.We have been trying to tear down silos for years at Thedacare which piece rate pay only builds up. One of the ways we have done it is to have a single bonus formula for everyone in the organization.If the work force collectively hits the target everybody gets the bonus.It has led to improved team work and staff being willing to work across departments to take waste out of patient value streams.
But I would also agree with most of the bloggers,the Taylor method is alive and well in most of the healthcare organizations I visit.

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-2288 Mark Graban Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:52:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-2288 Eric's post re-done with links:<br/><br/>Mark;<br/><br/>You're right that Taylorism is not dead. However, you're a little off the mark about piece-rate. I think a lot depends on the particular industry, but I can point you to two resources that indicate piece-rate is not only effective, but is sometimes preferred by workers.<br/><br/><a HREF="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/piece_rate_is_good.html" REL="nofollow">Link 1</a><br/><br/>and <br/><br/><a HREF="http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~pjkuhn/Ec152/Readings/LazearAER.pdf" REL="nofollow">Link 2</a> Eric’s post re-done with links:

Mark;

You’re right that Taylorism is not dead. However, you’re a little off the mark about piece-rate. I think a lot depends on the particular industry, but I can point you to two resources that indicate piece-rate is not only effective, but is sometimes preferred by workers.

Link 1

and

Link 2

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-1263 Anonymous Tue, 21 Nov 2006 06:04:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-1263 Lean Manufacturing is exceptional under certain cultures where the loyalty to the Organization matters and cultures have loyalty built in to their psyche for ages. Taylorism is more suited for the cultures that have "Whats in it for me ?" mindset (which is not a sin).<br/><br/>Having lived in America and having seen an Organization in India that tried these concepts in eary 1990s and failed I feel that both the concepts are correct and it all boils down to the culture where in the process is being implemented.<br/><br/>Neither of the solutions is a panecia and both have their own issues. Lean Manufacturing is exceptional under certain cultures where the loyalty to the Organization matters and cultures have loyalty built in to their psyche for ages. Taylorism is more suited for the cultures that have “Whats in it for me ?” mindset (which is not a sin).

Having lived in America and having seen an Organization in India that tried these concepts in eary 1990s and failed I feel that both the concepts are correct and it all boils down to the culture where in the process is being implemented.

Neither of the solutions is a panecia and both have their own issues.

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-1205 Mark Graban Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:10:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-1205 The WSJ reporter thinks I'm an idiot, along with those of you who agree with me on Taylorism. Actually, I'm not sure what she disagreed with considering her not-so-compelling response to my email pointing her to the Lean Blog:<br/><br/>She said:<br/><br/>-----------------<br/><br/>Sheesh.<br/>Words fail me.<br/>You just couldn't be more wrong.<br/>Cynthia Crossen The WSJ reporter thinks I’m an idiot, along with those of you who agree with me on Taylorism. Actually, I’m not sure what she disagreed with considering her not-so-compelling response to my email pointing her to the Lean Blog:

She said:

—————–

Sheesh.
Words fail me.
You just couldn’t be more wrong.
Cynthia Crossen

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-1202 Mark Graban Wed, 08 Nov 2006 04:06:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-1202 Looks like Lincoln Electric still DOES use piecework pay. From their website:<br/><br/>http://www.lincolnelectric.com/corporate/career/ Looks like Lincoln Electric still DOES use piecework pay. From their website:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/corporate/career/

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]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-1201 Anonymous Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:53:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-1201 Does anyone know if Lincoln Electric still works on a per-piece rate? There's a Harvard Case Study that talks about the Lincoln model and difficulties expanding it's application. Does anyone know if Lincoln Electric still works on a per-piece rate? There’s a Harvard Case Study that talks about the Lincoln model and difficulties expanding it’s application.

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick/#comment-1200 Mark Graban Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:16:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/11/wsjs-wrong-conclusion-on-frederick-taylor/#comment-1200 Eric-<br/><br/>Thanks for your comment. Most everything in your first link refers to productivity and efficiency -- but what about quality? My concern would be more about customers, quality, and continuous improvement. If employees "like" piece rate, then that's fine... ok, so piece rate isn't necessarily "exploitative"... but piece rate, even if tied to "good pieces per hour" (instead of "pieces per hour") seems to go against quality. <br/><br/>Even if the employee is paid only for good pieces, there is peer pressure on inspectors to lessen their standards, to let things slide so people can get paid, right?<br/><br/>Eric -- if you check back, how do you respond about the quality concerns with piecerate?<br/><br/>Thanks for the links -- I'd encourage everyone to check out the Fashion Incubator site, lots of good stuff there even if you're not in the fashion/garment/clothing industry.<br/><br/>Mark Eric-

Thanks for your comment. Most everything in your first link refers to productivity and efficiency — but what about quality? My concern would be more about customers, quality, and continuous improvement. If employees “like” piece rate, then that’s fine… ok, so piece rate isn’t necessarily “exploitative”… but piece rate, even if tied to “good pieces per hour” (instead of “pieces per hour”) seems to go against quality.

Even if the employee is paid only for good pieces, there is peer pressure on inspectors to lessen their standards, to let things slide so people can get paid, right?

Eric — if you check back, how do you respond about the quality concerns with piecerate?

Thanks for the links — I’d encourage everyone to check out the Fashion Incubator site, lots of good stuff there even if you’re not in the fashion/garment/clothing industry.

Mark

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