Comments on: Lean Case Study : ZF Industries http://www.leanblog.org/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/ Mark Graban's leanblog.org - Lean Healthcare, Lean Thinking, Lean Manufacturing, Toyota Production System Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:59:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jamie Flinchbaugh http://www.leanblog.org/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/#comment-800 Jamie Flinchbaugh Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:32:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/#comment-800 I think there is an essential element that makes copying either relevant or a disaster. That element is REFLECTION.<br/><br/>If you have the mechanisms and intent (the latter is the harder part) to stop, reflect and then take new actions, theny copying can be a great way to learn and internalize new ideas.<br/><br/>What does reflection look like? It has to deeply examine what happened and why (and why, why, why, why, why), then what can we learn about what works and what doesn't work and why, and then what new ACTION will we take. Most reflection, when it happens, skips this last step so its purely academic.<br/><br/>Thank you both Mark and Jon for exploring this topic. I think there is an essential element that makes copying either relevant or a disaster. That element is REFLECTION.

If you have the mechanisms and intent (the latter is the harder part) to stop, reflect and then take new actions, theny copying can be a great way to learn and internalize new ideas.

What does reflection look like? It has to deeply examine what happened and why (and why, why, why, why, why), then what can we learn about what works and what doesn’t work and why, and then what new ACTION will we take. Most reflection, when it happens, skips this last step so its purely academic.

Thank you both Mark and Jon for exploring this topic.

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/#comment-799 Mark Graban Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:58:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/#comment-799 I think the difference is in our definition of "copy." When I think "copy", I think to "do exactly like someone else." <br/><br/>Now, learning from others... and modeling yourself after others.... that's different.<br/><br/>Who did Toyota have to "copy"? Nobody. Did they learn from Henry Ford, American supermarkets, and their own loom business, applying that all to making cars? Absolutely.<br/><br/>The first hospital do lean didn't have another lean hospital to "copy" from. That's the distinction I'm trying to make.<br/><br/>Learning from is good, total copying is bad. With copying, people might take the parts that don't apply as well as the parts that do apply. Do we really want an operating table that's sliding slowly on a track at takt time? Of course not, but if you "copy" an auto plant, you might try that. I think the difference is in our definition of “copy.” When I think “copy”, I think to “do exactly like someone else.”

Now, learning from others… and modeling yourself after others…. that’s different.

Who did Toyota have to “copy”? Nobody. Did they learn from Henry Ford, American supermarkets, and their own loom business, applying that all to making cars? Absolutely.

The first hospital do lean didn’t have another lean hospital to “copy” from. That’s the distinction I’m trying to make.

Learning from is good, total copying is bad. With copying, people might take the parts that don’t apply as well as the parts that do apply. Do we really want an operating table that’s sliding slowly on a track at takt time? Of course not, but if you “copy” an auto plant, you might try that.

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]]> By: Jon Miller http://www.leanblog.org/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/#comment-798 Jon Miller Sat, 22 Jul 2006 04:14:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/#comment-798 I completely disagree Mark. Copying is a great way to learn and implement Lean. <br/><br/>What humans don't know by instinct we learn by copying or through experience. <br/><br/>Lean doesn't come by instinct, and if you don't have a Lean operational model to copy you can't learn from experience working with that model.<br/><br/>After all isn't "learning core lean concepts" a form of copying ideas and principles into your own beliefs system? I completely disagree Mark. Copying is a great way to learn and implement Lean.

What humans don’t know by instinct we learn by copying or through experience.

Lean doesn’t come by instinct, and if you don’t have a Lean operational model to copy you can’t learn from experience working with that model.

After all isn’t “learning core lean concepts” a form of copying ideas and principles into your own beliefs system?

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]]> By: Mark Graban http://www.leanblog.org/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/#comment-796 Mark Graban Fri, 21 Jul 2006 01:58:00 +0000 http://leanblog.bigbigdesign.net/2006/07/lean-case-study-zf-industries/#comment-796 I saw evidence of the desire to copy on the NWLean email list. A guy asked something like "we are doing lean at a company that makes chassis for a major bus manufacturer. We want to learn from others who have done lean, particularly those in our subindustry."<br/><br/>Do they think their competitors are going to help them?<br/><br/>It's too bad when people would rather take short cuts and copy someone else instead of learning the core lean concepts so that they can figure it out themselves. I saw evidence of the desire to copy on the NWLean email list. A guy asked something like “we are doing lean at a company that makes chassis for a major bus manufacturer. We want to learn from others who have done lean, particularly those in our subindustry.”

Do they think their competitors are going to help them?

It’s too bad when people would rather take short cuts and copy someone else instead of learning the core lean concepts so that they can figure it out themselves.

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